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Mike · Joined: 04 Jun 2009 Posts: 50 Location: Tyldesley

I think this is a good opportunity to let you all know exactly what i think of you....

I was at a loose end in life, wanted a hobby, a sport and a social life with new and like minded people...I came to a session one Wednesday to be welcomed by Carl and Chris H at the carpark. From that moment on i knew exactly what i had commited to.

I totally agree with Steve about his concerns, and from an administrative point of view how the club needs to function efficiently to remain as good as it is now with a potential growth is important. I also agree with Carl and sense sum "uneasyness" regarding the pool sessions. I noticed it straight away.

I think there needs to be two seperate discussions:

1) On the growth and size of the club...My view is that if we all as a club remain as passionate, friendly and welcoming as you all did when welcoming myself i dont think we will have a problem with being a bigger club. I think the danger occurs when a club/group is at a certain size and then switches off from the outside world...becoming a clique. If however we all stay alert to new members and treat them the way you treated me, then its a case of our friend base just increasing. In my personal opinion the people who run the club, do so in a way that will prevent it becoming an "institution" and existing for the sake of existing, because they are passionate, eager and commited.

With regards to formalising documentation etc, well once i found out Steve was involved with nuclear safety i thought, "i understand this guy now, white coat, clipboard...." only joking Steve!

2) The pool sessions seem at the moment to be causing mutual concern. I hope i havent stepped out of line making that statement. I like to think I understand politics of swimming pools as i have been heavily involved with swimming and waterpolo all my life. Its not just a case of opening for longer. Pools need a steady regular revenue, safety staff need to be present and approval needs to be given from the council in some cases.

Some new members may feel quite daunted by the fact of entering a boat on a river for the first time, and may feel alot more at ease in a pool, which is why we see and increase like we do at pool sessions.

The members such as myself in their own selfish way, although i use the world selfish very loosly...and i feel is more a subconsious thing is that they wish to develop with a club and sport they love. This is were i think we have a problem with numbers.

In recent weeks i have been desperate to get in the pool, to try and windle the two sessions just so i can practice my techniques. I have also seen a sharp increase of numbers whom i have never met before. I think this will always remain a problem. There is a quota of boats on the pool and there is a demand i feel exceeds the quota.

So what do we do?

Run additional sessions?
Extend our current sessions?
Cap numbers?
Find alternative locations at other times?
Use the pond at burrs?

These are very tricky questions with no clear answer due to the nature of the beast...We are dealing with a public pool which we rent and there are restrictions on resource, time and money.

There maybe room to look for a site outdoors that would accomodate coaching for the likes of me and other members wanting to develop their techniques. I would like to think the weather was not an issue being a winter sport..This could potentially be done on a Sunday morning every two weeks...again its all about resource, time and money.

I do agree with Jon i think whom made the statement that members that have been around and are developing, may want to consider some formal qualifications and even go into the realms of coaching, to ease the burden on the few that dedicate themselves to this club.

Just my thoughts. On a lighter note i would like to thank each and every one of you for welcoming me, accepting me and becoming my friend. I genuinly feel comfortable and excited to be around you all and look forward to many more trips away.

Mike

Steve T · Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:32 am Post subject:

Crikey - someone who can write as much as me!

Steve T · Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:26 am Post subject:

The point of me starting this thread was to get some general opinions and stir some discussion up. It seems most people have a view, this is good as it means we all care about the club – too often club members sit back and let themselves be organised by a committee who do a thankless job while everyone else moans about them. We don’t have that here, everyone does their share and puts their views and ideas forwards. It is a fact that we have got bigger, and will probably continue to do so if that’s what we want. Jokingly, I have said that it’s the website’s fault, but while this might get people through the door, they don’t stay with us because of the website – that’s everybody’s fault

.

I recognise that what has been posted above is not the opinion of everyone in the club, but the most active members do use the forum, so it’s fairly valid and it’s interesting to see how similar the views are. Trying not to put my personal spin on it, and based both on time spent with us and in some cases experience of other clubs, the views are:

•We are passionate, friendly and welcoming to newcomers
•We are informal and have a good laugh
•We’re like a bunch of mates who can trust each other
•There is no clique
•We like the club the size it is, but at the same time don’t want to cap numbers.
•Some believe that that we will inevitably get bigger. A bigger club will need to be run differently, but this shouldn’t change the things about the club which people like.

So now my personal views:

I’m a member of this club because I need a bunch of mates to paddle with and I coach others so that the bunch of mates gets bigger. For me that sums it up and I don’t really need to add to it, but I’m going to because I’m not letting Mike have the longest post in this thread.

I like the way the club has developed from six/seven of us having a laugh paddling to about fifteen/twenty of us having a laugh paddling (we’ve got about 35 members, but the core is much smaller).

I’m not a hard man gnarly grade 5 paddler, or even half-decent, but that doesn’t mean I’m not passionate about the sport, and as one of the more experienced paddlers in the club I enjoy sharing that passion. I get a genuine buzz when I see our current group of intermediates running rivers or egging each other on at the squirt spot, and realise that I’ve had something to do with that, and was probably present when most of them first sat in a kayak.

Anything bigger than a few mates needs some sort of organisation and paperwork, and since I get some perverse pleasure from that sort of thing I’m happy to do my share as Secretary. The committee is as informal as the rest of the club, we have infrequent meetings and most decisions are the subject of a chat between a few of us in the pub. While I admire those who are dedicated enough to run bigger clubs, the thought of monthly committee meetings, lottery applications, clubmark accreditations and endless other stuff would fill me with dread. On a selfish basis I have no wish at all to be involved in any of that.

The club has, I think, grown close to the ideal size – there is a core active membership of a critical mass so that there is always someone to paddle with, but never a huge unmanageable group to organise. The people are great to get on with, even for a misanthropic sod like me, and I haven’t had a bad day on the river (lake/canal/sea) or met anyone who I wouldn’t be happy to spend time with over a pint. I’m not going to ask if everyone else would be happy having a pint with me and my clipboard (that’s a good idea Mike – I need to get a clipboard!).

While prospective members come and go, I would suggest that some of those who don’t stick with us do so because they don’t like the way things are run, perhaps they want something more formal or they don’t think their personalities would fit. In short, less tactfully, they’re not like us and I don’t think it’s too controversial to suggest that we shouldn’t change the ethos of the club to attract them. As Phil said: “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” There are other clubs with different cultures so if they still want to paddle they will find somewhere that suits them. I think that it’s clear that those who do stick with us do so as much because they enjoy spending time with other members as they do paddling.

I do worry about getting too big, as it might become everything I don’t like and I will lose interest in the administrative side as it will be too much like hard work (I have been there and done that in the past as far as committee work is concerned). I agree, however, that it doesn’t feel right to cap numbers since all of us have benefited from what the club has to offer and we shouldn’t be selfish about it.

So, having gathered a few opinions and confirmed that most people think like me, I haven’t really got much of a conclusion other than that we need to be careful. We don’t want to cap numbers so that means we will get larger, therefore anything that changes as a result of that needs to be thought about carefully to make sure it doesn’t change the things we all like. We need to keep asking ourselves the question – will this make us too formal / less friendly / more cliquey etc?

And as for pool sessions, I think that they are a specific issue which I am sure can be managed. If not then they will continue to be a problem but should not affect the general club culture. For me they’re not that big a deal because paddling is not an indoor sport, so it’s just a way to keep in touch and an excuse for a pint. For complete beginners and anyone who is looking to nail their roll or a fancy playboating move then I recognise they are more than that. They will however have to change and become a little more formal, perhaps marshalling newcomers to a specific Wednesday each month as we attempted to do through the summer. That way everyone else will know that the first session might be full, and the coaches will be busy.

A real issue is members who paddle through the winter but we don’t see them in the summer – I’m not criticising them, as I recognise that people can have problems getting to Burrs for 19:00, so the question is how we encourage them to get outside. Or is there a perception that we teach canoeing at the pool in the winter so people can go off and do their own thing in the summer? I had an email last night which basically said “I’ve been canoeing for ten years on my own but would like to roll. Please can you teach me?” I think a few years ago we would have said”yes”, however I have replied that we are, first and foremost a club which expects that members join in all activities and paddle together as a club, during which activities you will probably learn to roll. If that’s what you want then you’ll be made welcome. (Apologies to the author of that email if you’re reading this – It’s just a timely example of similar enquiries and a real problem we’ve had in the past).

I think use of the Burrs pool more often is a great idea. Maybe in addition to our monthly white water trip (nominally, but almost never, the second weekend) we should have a monthly Sunday morning at Burrs (perhaps the fourth Sunday?) to make sure there’s something for everybody, especially through the winter.

Another great idea is for our intermediates to look at coaching at Level 1. The system has changed but L1 is ideal for introducing complete beginners which is what we really want. Lots of our members are more than ready for this and would personally benefit hugely from the process. There is a cost but the fees for L1 training and assessment are probably about the same as those of us at L2 / L2T have spent to get where we are (or where I hope to be after my assessment this Sunday!).

OK - I’m pretty sure that’s longer than Mike’s post so I’ll wrap up now.

Remember it’s about the paddling, so don’t get too serious and have FUN.

Steve
_________________
Steve Thomas
Secretary & Website Editor

www.westhoughtoncanoeclub.org.uk
website@westhoughtoncanoeclub.org.uk

Mike · Joined: 04 Jun 2009 Posts: 50 Location: Tyldesley

OK...I just have a few words to type whilst my pen warms up for another essay.

Those few words are "Hear, hear...to the last post" enough said

Mike

GrahamS · Joined: 13 Dec 2007 Posts: 182 Location: Warrington

CarlS · Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:28 pm Post subject:

I think that over the winter's months it is probably best to keep an eye on the forecast and post on the forum for burrs trips, rather than doing anything formal. I will try and make any weekend when there is enough water to make it worth getting out of bed for.