The future of the club - YOUR thoughts?

Steve T · The future of the club - YOUR thoughts?

Recent discussion elsewhere on the forum has prompted some thoughts about the club which I thought it would be worth sharing. I’d appreciate comments as I think we need to be careful how the club develops, and we all need to have some input to this.

First the history lesson so you can see where I’m coming from:
I have been a member for six years – I decided to get back into paddling after a break of about fifteen years so did a bit of a web search and emailed the Bolton, Wigan and Westhoughton clubs. None of the websites were very detailed, but my preference was for Westhoughton for the single reason that they went to moving water (OK, Burrs) each week while the others met on a reservoir. I figured that if I couldn’t make weekends at least I’d have a proper paddle midweek. In the event, I had no response from the other two but Graham rang me quite quickly and the next week I was at Burrs. Of the current regulars, only Graham B, Chris H & Paul M were active then, Carl & Jason had I think only recently joined, as had Mick, and we saw more of Allen then. The then Chairman lost interest about that time and Graham was running the show on his own. Apart from regular Wednesdays, the club wasn’t very active and I think only three Sunday events happened over the next year. There was one 60-minute session in the pool each week and were lucky to get seven or eight paddlers there, even including the Shufflers. People came and went but basically the six or seven of us were the club.

I nearly left in 2004/5, as I was frustrated and wanted to get out at weekends onto proper rivers, although I enjoyed paddling with what was then, as now, a good bunch of people. Things changed for me however as I took over and updated the website, started the forum (although it wasn’t initially used much and I closed it for two years) and got more involved with the club’s organisation which is something I enjoy. We then formed a committee which, admittedly, was in fact the entire active membership. The website started to attract new members, some of whom actually stayed with us.

The membership has ballooned since then; we run many more official and unofficial trips than I have time to attend and we even held an AGM this year. Since I’m quite sad and enjoy stuff like that, I’m also in the process of drafting a complete set of club documentation: policies, rules, risk assessments etc. We need all of this as the membership grows, but it’s in the background and we still manage to maintain an informal, friendly culture.

This culture is probably the most important thing which separates us from other clubs which are often much larger, more organised and more formal. There is a place for this, and some people prefer it, but having spoken to a number of recent new members and newcomers who have looked around at other clubs, this is one reason they come to us (and stay). There are even people out there recommending us as a friendly group who welcome beginners. Other clubs have been described as “cliquey” or unwelcoming, sometimes expecting beginners to complete a course with them before being allowed to join events. It’s also one of the reasons I’m still here as I’d rather have a laugh with a group of mates than parade in front of a nice clubhouse with a crest on the front.

It’s a fact that we are getting bigger, so we will inevitably have to become more organised – Chris T has suggested some formal coaching sessions in the pool and it’s probably the way forward. Our policies will have to better control how we lead and coach on events as the people on the trips won’t know each other as well as we have in the past. There are other implications to getting bigger – we will need more gear and there’s only so much space down the side of my house and on committee members’ roof racks.

My questions to all members are:

How do we manage this without turning into one of the other clubs?

Or:

Do we want 200 members, our own clubhouse and a Captain’s hat for Carl?

Or even:

Am I wrong? Are we just as cliquey as the rest and I can’t see it because I’m in the clique?

I have my own thoughts but I’d like to hear yours first. If you don’t put your two-penn’orth in now you can’t complain if the club changes into something you don’t like.

Steve

Dave W

I was introduced to Kayaking to paddle with 14th swinton scout group as a helper to paul M whilst he had the kids on the water. I had no intention of taking it up seriosly. Paul took me along to burrs for a few sessions where I met a fantastic bunch of people just like myself who wanted to learn and have a good laugh whilst doing it.
I then started getting involved in the club trips which have been some of the best weekends away I have ever had, they have been exiting, Scarey, and great fun. but the best thing about them are the people (all of which I know consider as friends).
I feel the informal meetings all make for a good day out, wether we are on Rivers, lakes or swimming pools and I think it would be a shame if that was to change.
I feel I have come on a long way in 12 months and this is all down to the coaches who give up there time to teach in such a way that you dont lose the FUN factor.

Dave

Steve T

Dave

That is exactly how I imagine most members see the club, and indeed how I have seen it for the last few years. The people are, rightly, the best thing about the club and I also regard you all as the nearest thing I have to friends.

I think that in 2008 we had the same club we've had before, but with more people, more trips and more FUN.

In 2009 I can sense changes due to the increase in numbers. Still FUN though.

I think that in 2010 we will have a noticeably different club. So what do we need to do now to make sure that the club is one that the current membership wants to be in, and is still FUN?

Steve

Jon W

I'd like to see Carl in the captain's hat....

Seriously though it's a tough call. It reminds me of my dad's fishing club (spits on ground....damn fisherfolk...luckily I wasn't tempted to the 'dark side')....they started off as a small friendly club which started out as a group of like minded people. Word got around and they got more and more popular....eventually they had to put a cap on numbers to make it manageable and even started interviewing potential members ("you can't join as your rod isn't up to scratch" etc etc.! ).
I'd hate WCC to end up like that where we assess people's kit and don't let them in if they don't have a matching hat and cag outfit!

There will be inevitably people who come and go so numbers will vary over time. There is a risk though where the club gets too big and is unable to run trips due to lack of competent/half decent paddlers or puts a first come first served limit on trip numbers.

Equally I'm aware of the pressure that greater numbers put on the committee/coaches. Perhaps some of us half competent/barely decent paddlers should start thinking about going down the road of getting qualifications and eventually coaching to ease the pressure. After all we've benefitted from the friendly approach and patience of the coaches.

Personally I wouldn't want the club to grow too big (e.g. 200 members)...even if it involves getting a clubhouse with beer and crisps on tap, nice warm changing rooms, pool table, sauna.....whoa hang on a minute..............!

CarlS

For me the club is still about having fun with a bunch of mates involving playing around in water, yes we are developing and of course this does mean that we will need to be a little more serious with regard to paperwork but on the whole we will stay a friendly club.

My own paddling as really developed over the last couple of years and this is down to the fact that we get out more. With the number of regular paddlers we have now, two or more trips a month can be organised and when you look at the standard of paddling at some over clubs we are actually fairly strong.

We have done more camps this year than in all the time that I have been with the club and many a good laugh has been had at these.

However, I sense a current feeling of unease, which I think has been generated by the situation regarding pool sessions. At the end of the day we are limited in numbers and there is nothing we can do about this.

Steve mentioned that we have a friendly club culture and yes I agree with him when he says that members of the club are the closest he has to friends. I feel the same way; when I am on a river I am surrounded by people who I trust entirely and know that when in a fix they will be there for me. They might laugh for a while and reach for a camera before a throwline but I know I can count on them. Before I joined Westhoughton I was a member of Manchester Canoe Club. They are friendly enough, but not a patch on us, which is a consequence of their size. I paddled for several weeks down at the Goyt Site and must say that any conversation was always initiated by myself, at the end of the session everyone got into their cars and left.

I feel that with the trips we have planned over the next few months, any bad feeling with regard to pool sessions will disappear and don't worry the dark nights will turn light again and once more we will be back on the river!

Be positive!

Dave W

Hear Hear Mr Chairman we should all go to the pub and drink to that.

Steve T

LALA

Hi everyone

Not been down for a few weeks due to not being well.

Could i just say that I tried out at Euxton Canoe Club for a couple of weeks at the pool sessions and i felt uncomfortable as it seemed to be very clicky. I then started at Westhoughton Canoe Club and what a BIG mistake that was LOL, Only jokin.

I have to say that Westhoughton Canoe Club seemed a very freindly club, everyone gets involved and helps one another.

With regards to the Pool Sessions i would like to suggest that for any members (even though me and Phil have not joined yet) that it contiunes on a Wednesday Night and possiable another 45 min session if we can fill the pool? Thats if the Pool would allow this?

Is there no way we would be able to pay a direct debit to 1. guarentee a place and 2. so the club guarentee the cost of the hire of the pool.
That way if another 45 minute session is needed it would be covered.

I just feel that for the ones that have paddled on the rivers and want to go that step further, the pool sessions is an opportunity to practice ours rolls without being freezing.

I would be happy to pay a Direct Debt.

It might be a stupid idea but it worth a try.

Phil

GrahamS

Just agreeing with the above really - once you've got your roll nailed I think you tend to view pool sessions as less important as time on the river. As we're now at a stage where we don't have to wait for 'competent paddlers' for Burrs etc, I'd like to get out a bit more at weekends.

As for the club getting too big, I don't think there's any cause for concern at the moment. In the short time I've been with the club there have been far more that have come & gone than have stayed on as regulars.

The best thing about our club is that we all get on off the water as well - does that make us just one big clique??

Jon W

We have cliques already...
The wheelbarrow and rhubarb clique,
The sea kayaking clique
The competent paddlers clique
The half decent paddlers clique
The Moonwalkers clique
The pink guinness clique
The lightweights clique.......

We're just one big clique!

jayteebee · Comfortable...

Hi All,

I Came down to the pool session wednesday night (16 oct 09) for the first time and I mus say Steve T and a few other members made me feel very welcome straight away.

He chatted to me straight away and didn't make me feel like a complete outsider.

After a brief I was in a boat on the pool...

Hmm not as easy as it looks this kayaking lark....

I'll keep coming and keep trying...

Thanks All

John

Steve T

See - that's the problem right there! If we sent them away half-drowned and scared witless we wouldn't have to worry about getting too big.

Seriously John, thanks for the comments and it was good to meet you (& Ian if you're out there reading this) last night - sorry I had to rush off. Look forward to your next session - keep coming, and you'll soon be enjoying paddling and the club as much as the rest of us.

CarlS

Steve T

Yes Carl, but you came back.

(Couldn't resist, sorry ..)

Mike

I think this is a good opportunity to let you all know exactly what i think of you....

I was at a loose end in life, wanted a hobby, a sport and a social life with new and like minded people...I came to a session one Wednesday to be welcomed by Carl and Chris H at the carpark. From that moment on i knew exactly what i had commited to.

I totally agree with Steve about his concerns, and from an administrative point of view how the club needs to function efficiently to remain as good as it is now with a potential growth is important. I also agree with Carl and sense sum "uneasyness" regarding the pool sessions. I noticed it straight away.

I think there needs to be two seperate discussions:

1) On the growth and size of the club...My view is that if we all as a club remain as passionate, friendly and welcoming as you all did when welcoming myself i dont think we will have a problem with being a bigger club. I think the danger occurs when a club/group is at a certain size and then switches off from the outside world...becoming a clique. If however we all stay alert to new members and treat them the way you treated me, then its a case of our friend base just increasing. In my personal opinion the people who run the club, do so in a way that will prevent it becoming an "institution" and existing for the sake of existing, because they are passionate, eager and commited.

With regards to formalising documentation etc, well once i found out Steve was involved with nuclear safety i thought, "i understand this guy now, white coat, clipboard...." only joking Steve!

2) The pool sessions seem at the moment to be causing mutual concern. I hope i havent stepped out of line making that statement. I like to think I understand politics of swimming pools as i have been heavily involved with swimming and waterpolo all my life. Its not just a case of opening for longer. Pools need a steady regular revenue, safety staff need to be present and approval needs to be given from the council in some cases.

Some new members may feel quite daunted by the fact of entering a boat on a river for the first time, and may feel alot more at ease in a pool, which is why we see and increase like we do at pool sessions.

The members such as myself in their own selfish way, although i use the world selfish very loosly...and i feel is more a subconsious thing is that they wish to develop with a club and sport they love. This is were i think we have a problem with numbers.

In recent weeks i have been desperate to get in the pool, to try and windle the two sessions just so i can practice my techniques. I have also seen a sharp increase of numbers whom i have never met before. I think this will always remain a problem. There is a quota of boats on the pool and there is a demand i feel exceeds the quota.

So what do we do?

Run additional sessions?
Extend our current sessions?
Cap numbers?
Find alternative locations at other times?
Use the pond at burrs?

These are very tricky questions with no clear answer due to the nature of the beast...We are dealing with a public pool which we rent and there are restrictions on resource, time and money.

There maybe room to look for a site outdoors that would accomodate coaching for the likes of me and other members wanting to develop their techniques. I would like to think the weather was not an issue being a winter sport..This could potentially be done on a Sunday morning every two weeks...again its all about resource, time and money.

I do agree with Jon i think whom made the statement that members that have been around and are developing, may want to consider some formal qualifications and even go into the realms of coaching, to ease the burden on the few that dedicate themselves to this club.

Just my thoughts. On a lighter note i would like to thank each and every one of you for welcoming me, accepting me and becoming my friend. I genuinly feel comfortable and excited to be around you all and look forward to many more trips away.

Mike

Steve T

Crikey - someone who can write as much as me!

Steve T

The point of me starting this thread was to get some general opinions and stir some discussion up. It seems most people have a view, this is good as it means we all care about the club – too often club members sit back and let themselves be organised by a committee who do a thankless job while everyone else moans about them. We don’t have that here, everyone does their share and puts their views and ideas forwards. It is a fact that we have got bigger, and will probably continue to do so if that’s what we want. Jokingly, I have said that it’s the website’s fault, but while this might get people through the door, they don’t stay with us because of the website – that’s everybody’s fault

.

I recognise that what has been posted above is not the opinion of everyone in the club, but the most active members do use the forum, so it’s fairly valid and it’s interesting to see how similar the views are. Trying not to put my personal spin on it, and based both on time spent with us and in some cases experience of other clubs, the views are:

•We are passionate, friendly and welcoming to newcomers
•We are informal and have a good laugh
•We’re like a bunch of mates who can trust each other
•There is no clique
•We like the club the size it is, but at the same time don’t want to cap numbers.
•Some believe that that we will inevitably get bigger. A bigger club will need to be run differently, but this shouldn’t change the things about the club which people like.

So now my personal views:

I’m a member of this club because I need a bunch of mates to paddle with and I coach others so that the bunch of mates gets bigger. For me that sums it up and I don’t really need to add to it, but I’m going to because I’m not letting Mike have the longest post in this thread.

I like the way the club has developed from six/seven of us having a laugh paddling to about fifteen/twenty of us having a laugh paddling (we’ve got about 35 members, but the core is much smaller).

I’m not a hard man gnarly grade 5 paddler, or even half-decent, but that doesn’t mean I’m not passionate about the sport, and as one of the more experienced paddlers in the club I enjoy sharing that passion. I get a genuine buzz when I see our current group of intermediates running rivers or egging each other on at the squirt spot, and realise that I’ve had something to do with that, and was probably present when most of them first sat in a kayak.

Anything bigger than a few mates needs some sort of organisation and paperwork, and since I get some perverse pleasure from that sort of thing I’m happy to do my share as Secretary. The committee is as informal as the rest of the club, we have infrequent meetings and most decisions are the subject of a chat between a few of us in the pub. While I admire those who are dedicated enough to run bigger clubs, the thought of monthly committee meetings, lottery applications, clubmark accreditations and endless other stuff would fill me with dread. On a selfish basis I have no wish at all to be involved in any of that.

The club has, I think, grown close to the ideal size – there is a core active membership of a critical mass so that there is always someone to paddle with, but never a huge unmanageable group to organise. The people are great to get on with, even for a misanthropic sod like me, and I haven’t had a bad day on the river (lake/canal/sea) or met anyone who I wouldn’t be happy to spend time with over a pint. I’m not going to ask if everyone else would be happy having a pint with me and my clipboard (that’s a good idea Mike – I need to get a clipboard!).

While prospective members come and go, I would suggest that some of those who don’t stick with us do so because they don’t like the way things are run, perhaps they want something more formal or they don’t think their personalities would fit. In short, less tactfully, they’re not like us and I don’t think it’s too controversial to suggest that we shouldn’t change the ethos of the club to attract them. As Phil said: “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” There are other clubs with different cultures so if they still want to paddle they will find somewhere that suits them. I think that it’s clear that those who do stick with us do so as much because they enjoy spending time with other members as they do paddling.

I do worry about getting too big, as it might become everything I don’t like and I will lose interest in the administrative side as it will be too much like hard work (I have been there and done that in the past as far as committee work is concerned). I agree, however, that it doesn’t feel right to cap numbers since all of us have benefited from what the club has to offer and we shouldn’t be selfish about it.

So, having gathered a few opinions and confirmed that most people think like me, I haven’t really got much of a conclusion other than that we need to be careful. We don’t want to cap numbers so that means we will get larger, therefore anything that changes as a result of that needs to be thought about carefully to make sure it doesn’t change the things we all like. We need to keep asking ourselves the question – will this make us too formal / less friendly / more cliquey etc?

And as for pool sessions, I think that they are a specific issue which I am sure can be managed. If not then they will continue to be a problem but should not affect the general club culture. For me they’re not that big a deal because paddling is not an indoor sport, so it’s just a way to keep in touch and an excuse for a pint. For complete beginners and anyone who is looking to nail their roll or a fancy playboating move then I recognise they are more than that. They will however have to change and become a little more formal, perhaps marshalling newcomers to a specific Wednesday each month as we attempted to do through the summer. That way everyone else will know that the first session might be full, and the coaches will be busy.

A real issue is members who paddle through the winter but we don’t see them in the summer – I’m not criticising them, as I recognise that people can have problems getting to Burrs for 19:00, so the question is how we encourage them to get outside. Or is there a perception that we teach canoeing at the pool in the winter so people can go off and do their own thing in the summer? I had an email last night which basically said “I’ve been canoeing for ten years on my own but would like to roll. Please can you teach me?” I think a few years ago we would have said”yes”, however I have replied that we are, first and foremost a club which expects that members join in all activities and paddle together as a club, during which activities you will probably learn to roll. If that’s what you want then you’ll be made welcome. (Apologies to the author of that email if you’re reading this – It’s just a timely example of similar enquiries and a real problem we’ve had in the past).

I think use of the Burrs pool more often is a great idea. Maybe in addition to our monthly white water trip (nominally, but almost never, the second weekend) we should have a monthly Sunday morning at Burrs (perhaps the fourth Sunday?) to make sure there’s something for everybody, especially through the winter.

Another great idea is for our intermediates to look at coaching at Level 1. The system has changed but L1 is ideal for introducing complete beginners which is what we really want. Lots of our members are more than ready for this and would personally benefit hugely from the process. There is a cost but the fees for L1 training and assessment are probably about the same as those of us at L2 / L2T have spent to get where we are (or where I hope to be after my assessment this Sunday!).

OK - I’m pretty sure that’s longer than Mike’s post so I’ll wrap up now.

Remember it’s about the paddling, so don’t get too serious and have FUN.

Steve

Mike

OK...I just have a few words to type whilst my pen warms up for another essay.

Those few words are "Hear, hear...to the last post" enough said

Mike

GrahamS

CarlS

I think that over the winter's months it is probably best to keep an eye on the forecast and post on the forum for burrs trips, rather than doing anything formal. I will try and make any weekend when there is enough water to make it worth getting out of bed for.

The future of the club - YOUR thoughts?

Comfortable...